Flying Blind - Starring Téa Leoni and Corey Parker with guest Lisa Kudrow

[00:00:00] On this episode of That Was a Show? Flying Blind was a show. It ran on Fox from September

[00:00:09] 1992 to May 1993, lasting a total of 22 episodes. It's the story of a relationship between

[00:00:18] young, uptight and somewhat nebish-neal Cory Parker who lives at home with his parents,

[00:00:23] the free-wheeling and sexually liberated Alicia, Taelioni, who lives with cool New York

[00:00:29] artist-loft party types. It features cameos from a veritable revolving door of great comedic

[00:00:36] actors, including favorite of the pod Lisa Kudrow. Brynn, Aaron, and Barry, don their most

[00:00:42] chic attire, head over to what I can only assume is the meatpacking district, and try

[00:00:47] to figure out why this party fizzled out. We grew up during peak sitcom, Seinfeld, Friends,

[00:00:55] the Fresh Prince, but those shows were diamonds in the rough. This podcast is not about

[00:01:01] those diamonds, it's about the rough. Some sitcoms were briefly popular in their time, some

[00:01:07] were canceled almost immediately. You probably won't recognize most of these, and you'll

[00:01:12] ask, That Was a Show?

[00:01:18] The podcast about failed or forgotten sitcoms from the 80s and 90s starring

[00:01:28] Brynn Bernie, Aaron Yeager, and Andrew Helmer as Barry.

[00:01:37] A radio gizmo production.

[00:01:45] Welcome to what is this Sunday February 4th. We never actually talk about when we record

[00:01:53] these. The audience never knows. I think it kind of breaks immersion because isn't it

[00:02:00] March 1st for the people listening to this?

[00:02:02] Yeah, I don't know. It's sometime a few weeks later.

[00:02:10] We don't know who won the Super Bowl. There's a pretty good chance that on March 1st, we

[00:02:17] still don't. What we do know is that this will be episode 70. That's correct.

[00:02:24] Yeah, that's the one thing that's for sure.

[00:02:27] Which is crazy.

[00:02:28] Did we even wish people happy New Year last episode?

[00:02:32] Probably not.

[00:02:33] It was our first episode of 2024 and we didn't even make a thing of it. Did we?

[00:02:37] Well, you know, it's pretty ghost to wish somebody happy New Year's week.

[00:02:43] Last Larry David's statute of limitations on happy New Year's.

[00:02:49] We're like three days or something.

[00:02:52] We're getting through Q1 at this point.

[00:02:54] Yeah.

[00:02:55] Q1 talking like an economist.

[00:02:58] I am. I work in a, I work and find out.

[00:03:01] I know. My Q1 ends my Q1 ends February.

[00:03:07] So I will say as a follow up to our conversation, our preamble conversation in the previous episode

[00:03:16] on your recommendation.

[00:03:17] I have started watching our flag means death and it is highly entertaining.

[00:03:21] Very glad to hear that.

[00:03:24] It also gets quite, quite sweet as it goes along.

[00:03:27] Yeah.

[00:03:28] Yeah. I think I'm about five episodes in.

[00:03:31] So it's pretty good.

[00:03:33] It's pretty good.

[00:03:34] Excellent.

[00:03:35] Very glad to hear that.

[00:03:36] Yeah.

[00:03:37] And I will once again insist that you watch jury duty.

[00:03:40] It's on the list again, not the movie.

[00:03:44] It's on the list again.

[00:03:46] We were again, not the movie.

[00:03:47] Yeah.

[00:03:48] We were out with friends last night gathering and we were prosphilitizing to everybody

[00:03:54] that they need to watch jury duty.

[00:03:55] And it's like well, I've already seen it.

[00:03:57] I've already seen the, the Paulie Shore movie multiple times.

[00:04:02] It's like do you really think that that's what we're gunning so hard for you to watch

[00:04:06] on this movie?

[00:04:07] Yeah.

[00:04:08] It was so excited to tell you about this hot new thing that we watched for the first time

[00:04:11] of 1995 Paulie Shore movie.

[00:04:14] Yeah.

[00:04:15] Yeah.

[00:04:16] Also, I forget it.

[00:04:17] I can't remember for sure if it came up but I feel like we might have talked about

[00:04:22] starting up in Heimer last time and we still haven't finished it.

[00:04:27] Yeah.

[00:04:28] Yeah.

[00:04:29] Chippin' away.

[00:04:30] We're chippin' away at it.

[00:04:32] Um.

[00:04:33] You're watching it like the kids watch movies on TikTok.

[00:04:36] I know, I know.

[00:04:37] Yeah.

[00:04:38] Totally.

[00:04:39] Sorry.

[00:04:40] All right.

[00:04:41] Should we get into our dive on in?

[00:04:43] Sure, sure.

[00:04:44] Yeah.

[00:04:45] Dive on in.

[00:04:46] So this week, um, we covered a little, uh, program called-

[00:04:53] Little program.

[00:04:56] Called Flying Blind.

[00:04:58] Okay.

[00:04:59] So Flying Blind was a show.

[00:05:02] It was in fact a show.

[00:05:04] This one season wonder premiered on Fox in September 1992 and its final episode aired

[00:05:11] May 2nd, 1993 so it had a full one season of 22 episodes.

[00:05:18] It was created by Richard Rosenstock who later wrote for Arrested Development and it

[00:05:24] starred Taelioni and Cory Parker as Alicia and Neil, a couple who have a passionate connection

[00:05:32] despite being opposites.

[00:05:34] Neil is insecure and uptight and Alicia is beautiful and uninhibited.

[00:05:39] It is your standard odd coupling trope, uh, set in New York and featuring the David Burn

[00:05:45] song a million miles away as it's opening theme for some reason.

[00:05:50] Yeah.

[00:05:51] The rest of the cast includes Christine Rose and Michael Tucci as Neil's overbearing

[00:05:56] parents, Marcus Gianmati as Neil's colleague and Robert Bauer and Clea Lewis as Alicia's

[00:06:04] roommates.

[00:06:05] The show follows Neil as he struggles to find a direction for his life post college and

[00:06:10] the turbulent relationship he begins with Alicia.

[00:06:13] The series starts with Neil working for his dad as a pencil pusher at a company called

[00:06:17] Hawkman Foods.

[00:06:19] He meets Alicia by chance and she whisks him away to her massive and eclectic loft that

[00:06:24] she shares with her equally eclectic roommates and a variety of revolving house guests.

[00:06:31] Alicia is a sort of woman about town, a free spirited party girl who has many lovers

[00:06:36] and just might be the person to pull Neil out of his shell.

[00:06:40] We watched episode two and episode 17 of Flying Blind and I'm still not quite sure what

[00:06:47] it's really all about.

[00:06:51] And that's all I got as my, my summary.

[00:06:54] That's great.

[00:06:55] I have to say, I have to say right away if you were watching TV in the 90s and you had

[00:07:01] never been to New York City shows like this lead you to believe that everyone in New York

[00:07:08] lives it regardless of income level.

[00:07:10] Live a huge massive loft.

[00:07:13] The biggest fucking loft you have ever seen in your life and all of their friends are like

[00:07:18] Andy Warhol level artists.

[00:07:22] That's every they all party.

[00:07:24] They all are like seven nights a week at the hottest clubs.

[00:07:28] They have for all only celebrities and like senators as friends and like you would think

[00:07:36] that every New Yorker is the center of their own personal universe.

[00:07:40] Yeah.

[00:07:41] And you know, it's so the whole kind of premise is really that Neil and Alicia are opposites.

[00:07:50] It's kind of like a precursor to Dharma and Greg but they're a little bit younger.

[00:07:58] And you know, they're very, they're just very different.

[00:08:01] Like Neil is very buttoned down and he's trying to kind of find himself.

[00:08:05] And he starts the series again working not only working for his dad but living in his

[00:08:10] parents home.

[00:08:12] And I didn't quite catch where his parents were are they like, they're not also in the

[00:08:17] city.

[00:08:18] They're like in the suburbs.

[00:08:19] It's sort of suburb.

[00:08:20] Yeah.

[00:08:21] Yeah.

[00:08:22] There and maybe I don't know, Jersey or something.

[00:08:24] Jersey or Long Island or something.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:26] But yeah.

[00:08:27] So he's kind of this he's not I don't know if I would say he's sheltered but he's definitely

[00:08:32] kind of like in his shell, like just kind of trying to break through.

[00:08:37] And then he meets Alicia and Alicia really is very much this kind of Hollywood lightly type

[00:08:43] this very eccentric and very flamboyant woman who's like, you know, comes off as worldly

[00:08:53] but in that very superficial way that is in TV shows.

[00:08:57] Yeah.

[00:08:58] It's like you know, she's you know, she's eccentric because she wears a lot of fringe and

[00:09:04] like, you know, so we didn't we didn't have the term manic pixie dream girl.

[00:09:09] Yes.

[00:09:10] Exactly.

[00:09:11] This is before that but this is like the closest thing to that.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] She's like a complete screenwriter's fantasy of what a woman might possibly be.

[00:09:19] Yeah.

[00:09:20] And literally every man who comes into contact with her is immediately seduced by her.

[00:09:25] She's they kind of position her as she's completely irresistible.

[00:09:29] She has the she has the Kavorka.

[00:09:31] Yes, exactly.

[00:09:33] So yeah.

[00:09:34] So basically it's kind of like one of the running jokes is kind of like well how the hell

[00:09:39] did he score her?

[00:09:41] So but he's also very cute.

[00:09:43] So I don't quite understand like his show tells us he's not those.

[00:09:46] Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:47] We're we're going to take their word.

[00:09:49] Yeah.

[00:09:50] Yeah.

[00:09:51] The show tells us that he's very bookish and bouncy.

[00:09:53] Yeah, the show tells us he's not conventionally a handsome man.

[00:09:56] But he is an actor working actor in a Hollywood.

[00:10:00] Exactly.

[00:10:01] He's in reality when you just look at him next to her.

[00:10:06] You're like I could like if they don't if neither of them talk.

[00:10:09] Yeah.

[00:10:10] I can believe that these two would be together.

[00:10:12] But as soon as they start like talking, you're like they're clearly personifying these characters

[00:10:20] that are like not quite fitting.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:25] And like so his whole persona, okay, there's a certain archetype comedy archetype that

[00:10:34] comes from like Jewish Yiddish comedy called the Nebysh.

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:39] Then I saw him described as Nebysh in different synopsis.

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:44] So he's playing a Nebysh.

[00:10:45] Now the most famous Nebysh character that people know from comedy is every character

[00:10:52] that Woody Allen played in movies.

[00:10:54] And that makes sense.

[00:10:58] And then by the time this show was on like the early 90s and presumably a lot of the

[00:11:03] comedy writers who worked on it were learning the craft in the 70s and 80s.

[00:11:09] This was like a very hot trope.

[00:11:11] I feel like, you know, really wilder, really popular.

[00:11:15] I've stood in the 40s and 50s.

[00:11:18] This was an archetype that you know, the whole yeah, it's the you go with the apartment

[00:11:25] where you know, the character arc is Nebysh to Metsh.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:31] Yeah.

[00:11:32] It's hard to define precisely in words in English what a Nebysh is because it would be

[00:11:36] oversimplifying to say socially awkward or neurotic or something like that although those elements

[00:11:42] might play into it.

[00:11:43] But it's a specific type where yeah, where he would not be easily, he would not be at

[00:11:50] ease around the woman as outgoing and attractive as her.

[00:11:55] But he would want to be and he would be desperately like there's a there's a wreak of desperation

[00:12:00] aspect to it.

[00:12:01] Oh, oh is there.

[00:12:03] And so they're clearly like his whole.

[00:12:07] Yeah.

[00:12:08] The arc in the second episode is desperation.

[00:12:11] Exactly.

[00:12:12] He's laying that on real face.

[00:12:14] He's got he's one of the worst like characters we've ever encountered.

[00:12:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:19] And they're laying that on so thick and even his delivery of some of the lines sounds like

[00:12:23] he's impersonating a Woody Allen character.

[00:12:25] I literally was just about to say that it does sound like that but yeah, okay.

[00:12:29] So at first I was kind of disappointed that I couldn't find the pilot anywhere for us to

[00:12:33] watch.

[00:12:34] But based on the like the two episodes we watch, I feel like not much even happens.

[00:12:40] No, it's enough to read the summary honestly.

[00:12:44] And like you know, I'm kind of glad we started with this second episode because it was I didn't

[00:12:49] even read the summary and I think the show covers it.

[00:12:52] Yeah, basically I got I got how they met.

[00:12:56] It's it they talk about it in the second episode.

[00:12:58] Yeah, like I just assume it's like, you know, they set up that he's working for this food

[00:13:04] company and he's also living with his parents and he's a little bit, you know, aimless

[00:13:09] and then she kind of comes in and shakes everything up and she's inexplicably instantly

[00:13:14] attracted to him.

[00:13:16] So yeah, well the fact that he's cute but like the fact that he stood out amongst all

[00:13:22] the other men in New York, you think she'd go for a more confident type.

[00:13:27] But I mean like she's she's not a character so like yeah, she's not a three-dimensional

[00:13:32] character.

[00:13:33] She is a manic fixie dream girl.

[00:13:35] She's she's she's she's window dressing for whatever he's supposed to be less than

[00:13:40] after.

[00:13:41] Yeah, it's unfortunate like and it's like tailionia obviously is fantastic.

[00:13:45] Like she's great in everything.

[00:13:46] She's very as a commanding like presence.

[00:13:50] This is not this is not her best work.

[00:13:52] No, it isn't.

[00:13:53] It isn't but it's like you know, she did the most with this that she could I think.

[00:13:58] Yeah, she does more than than almost everybody else.

[00:14:01] Yeah, it's you know a lot of the aesthetics are like very very early 90s.

[00:14:08] It's very like you know I love her the costume choices for her like I was like really enjoying

[00:14:14] every scene to see what she was going to wear next because they were like pretty like

[00:14:19] just like over the top.

[00:14:21] Yeah, the wardrobe and set design is a fun time capsule.

[00:14:25] Her character has like my least favorite 90s hairstyle which is like that like short

[00:14:31] hair with the giant like volumized big barrel curls.

[00:14:37] It's just like not flattering on anyone and I don't know why that was like a look in

[00:14:41] the early 90s.

[00:14:42] And every guy has a boxy double breasted suit and the loudest floral tie they could find.

[00:14:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:49] I would say like honestly like there's so much in this like just kind of going in over

[00:14:54] you're like all right, well it's you know what's a New York show it's a New York hang

[00:14:58] or it should be a New York hangout show.

[00:15:00] It's not yeah, it's not you want it to be it yeah, it's the type of thing that I'm like

[00:15:05] you know you didn't really have to I you didn't have to work hard to get me to sit through

[00:15:11] this and the show really didn't do it.

[00:15:13] Yeah, but I think the biggest thing like is the writing and like I have never seen a

[00:15:22] show so confident and so in love with its own dialogue.

[00:15:28] I know, I know.

[00:15:30] And then the worst is like there are so many like blown takes that they left in because

[00:15:38] like none of the actors get the fucking rhythms of the dialogue because it's yeah because

[00:15:44] it's it's like it's overwritten.

[00:15:47] Overwritten yes, it just reminds me of like it just reminds me of like it just reminds

[00:15:52] me of like like 18 year old me writing dialogue and making like people say it not realizing

[00:15:59] you know, yeah, like how to write for.

[00:16:03] Okay, so I'm so glad you both said that that was like one of my biggest notes it's like

[00:16:08] maybe the wordiest jokes ever maybe the like most awkward things to deliver like you

[00:16:14] know, it was probably torture for the deliver.

[00:16:18] And like really like riffing or improving was like really for the pause.

[00:16:24] Oh my god, it's very same I say my genius words.

[00:16:29] Yeah, for such a wordy thing you can tell that it's not loose like that it's very it's

[00:16:36] like a like a stage play kind of in the sense that yeah, they're very precious about every

[00:16:41] word even though it's such rapid fire banter.

[00:16:44] I'm so glad that both of you mentioned like the awkward rhythm.

[00:16:48] Yeah, the delivery because my last note that I wrote it was kind of like I was going to

[00:16:52] save this for later but I need to say this now because it's now is when it's relevant.

[00:16:57] I wrote some of these jokes take so long to get out like it's such literary content and

[00:17:04] the rhythm is so off.

[00:17:06] So you know like good sitcom banter when you see it.

[00:17:09] It's hard to like pinpoint why it works when it works.

[00:17:12] And I hate to always reference.

[00:17:13] He shouldn't.

[00:17:14] Yeah, because you don't notice when you don't know.

[00:17:16] You don't notice when it works but I hate to always use this as a reference.

[00:17:19] But for a show that's like high-minded literary long-winded jokes, you can look at a show

[00:17:24] like Frazier and it works 100% of the time.

[00:17:28] And you could use any of the greatest shows of that era to show like here's a demonstration

[00:17:33] and also not every character speaks like that.

[00:17:36] You know what I mean?

[00:17:37] Like they they know how to like they give all the long-winded stuff to Frazier and Niles

[00:17:41] and everyone else is sort of just normal.

[00:17:43] Whereas in this show everyone has these like weird paragraph-long jokes.

[00:17:49] Yeah, I was making a sense.

[00:17:50] You got to knock the tennis ball back and forth with a rhythm where it feels like a natural

[00:17:55] conversation.

[00:17:56] So even though it's set up punchline, you still need to sort of believe these are human

[00:18:01] beings talking to each other and not just taking turns giving soliloquies.

[00:18:06] There's an example of this which as I was thinking of it, I was like it was like it

[00:18:11] still worked.

[00:18:12] This is very Gilmore Girls dialogue where it's speaking a mile a minute.

[00:18:18] Gilmore Girls also has a thing where like you know, you're just sort of like wow, this

[00:18:23] is a lot but there's like a way that they manage to handle it which sort of like works for

[00:18:30] it.

[00:18:31] Yeah, but this did not have that.

[00:18:34] You know what it is?

[00:18:35] They're on the same page as the right as Amy Sherman Paladino.

[00:18:40] Thank you.

[00:18:41] They're on the same page as her and these guys are like, I don't know what the fuck this

[00:18:46] is.

[00:18:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:48] This feels like actors were given script pages like an hour before shooting and then

[00:18:53] probably we're having like panic and they're all pro's so they're able to memorize the

[00:18:59] lines but they're not really vibing with it.

[00:19:02] So they're just kind of like, well, I got to get out this mouth full of.

[00:19:08] But then they slam you with the laugh track hard enough to like thank God.

[00:19:13] It's just the only thing that was keeping the pacing on the scene.

[00:19:17] Yeah, it was a joke.

[00:19:19] Yeah, if there was imagine this show, if there was no audible laughter, it would be torture.

[00:19:25] Yeah, it would be really awkward.

[00:19:27] Anyway, I guess we should just describe kind of break down the two episodes.

[00:19:32] So basically episode two is sort of in the aftermath of him meeting Alicia and Neil is

[00:19:40] like fantasizing about like sleeping with her and he's like desperate to see her again.

[00:19:45] And like, the opening, like the cold open is like this fantasy of them having just slept

[00:19:54] together for the first time.

[00:19:56] And it's like some pillow talk and it ends abruptly with his dad waking him up.

[00:20:06] And again, we're reminded that he lives at home and has to kind of deal with that and

[00:20:12] not have this exciting erotic adventure with her adventure with Alicia until he sees her

[00:20:17] again.

[00:20:18] So he's back in the office and kind of just kind of hang dog kind of and he's getting like

[00:20:28] kind of ribbed by his coworker Ted who's more ambitious.

[00:20:35] Pardon?

[00:20:36] I said he sucks.

[00:20:37] Yeah, he sucks.

[00:20:39] Also he is that actor is the brother of Paul Gianmatti.

[00:20:44] Is he actually?

[00:20:45] He is his brother.

[00:20:46] I saw his name was Gianmatti and I thought it doesn't look like him.

[00:20:50] So he's man Marcus Gianmatti, he's that he's also a very successful like character actor.

[00:20:57] That's so that's great.

[00:20:59] Yeah anyway.

[00:21:00] So yeah, so we see this happening and then he's like he's he just decides at the end of

[00:21:06] the day that he's going to go track down Alicia is going to go try to find her apartment

[00:21:11] which seems very odd like how he could just show up and figure out which one is her apartment

[00:21:16] at any rate.

[00:21:17] He was he would he'd been there in the previous episode but like it did sound like he showed

[00:21:23] up and wasn't quite sure if it was hers.

[00:21:26] But before he leaves his mom who happens to be at the office too for some reason she

[00:21:31] reminds him that they have a big family dinner and that he has to be home to like be with

[00:21:37] the whole family and he's like okay, but I'm going to just like do something first.

[00:21:42] And basically he's like so horny.

[00:21:44] Is he work for Alicia?

[00:21:45] Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:46] Okay, that's what I thought or he works for the same company as his dad.

[00:21:49] Okay, so it's I don't think his dad owns the company but he got the job through his

[00:21:56] dad.

[00:21:57] So yeah, so he's just so horny that he just has to like try to like connect with Alicia

[00:22:05] and just get it out of his system.

[00:22:07] So he goes to her apartment and is greeted by a just a host of strange people that are

[00:22:15] like hanging out there.

[00:22:17] There's like a person at the door with a horse mask on.

[00:22:21] Like has naked in a horse mask?

[00:22:23] Yeah, and it's just it's like a whole thing and you know we meet the roommates like we

[00:22:29] meet them.

[00:22:30] I'm sure we meet them in the pilot but we met them for the first time and they're funny

[00:22:34] they're quirky.

[00:22:38] And you know Alicia finally shows up and he's basically like when are we going to have sex?

[00:22:47] And the whole and they go out together, they go out to a bar and she's like got all these

[00:22:53] men approaching her that she either knows or are just throwing themselves at her.

[00:22:57] Throwing themselves at her including Deedric Bader which I found very funny.

[00:23:04] Yeah, delight to see.

[00:23:07] So everyone's like fawning over her and you know the whole time Neil is just like okay so

[00:23:12] when's this gonna happen?

[00:23:14] It's just like and she's like you know I just I feel this like this like special connection

[00:23:20] with you and I wanted to be special so I think we should wait but in the whole the whole

[00:23:25] moment with them is them debating about whether or not they should wait to have sex or

[00:23:31] they should just have sex.

[00:23:33] It's basically like Neil basically being like whether or not he wants to consider her as

[00:23:38] a human or not.

[00:23:39] Yeah, yeah it's it's gross like the whole the whole thing gave me the vibe but then the

[00:23:44] follow up to that is she says well we're gonna wait and then she shows up at his door

[00:23:49] like I know I was getting to it but anyway so yeah so the whole that whole scene gave me

[00:23:59] like Ike vibes of like the whole trope that's like more of a recent trope of the quote

[00:24:06] unquote nice guy who's really just a skis and is going to like neg her and try to like

[00:24:13] get her to like just just begging her to like give it up and have sex with him and I was

[00:24:18] just like this is gross.

[00:24:20] And at some point he gives up and then goes home to his parents house and by this time

[00:24:27] he's like miss the family dinner and his dad is there by himself and is at the table

[00:24:32] waiting for him and his dad's upset and he's like you know you you we everyone was here

[00:24:37] everyone missed you giving him a good dose of dad guilt.

[00:24:41] And he's like ah you know I'm sorry and goes to bed and then soon after Alicia shows

[00:24:47] up and again how does she know where he lives well there's a line about it but it's

[00:24:52] about him telling her very can try it's all very can drive.

[00:24:56] So she shows up at the parent house and she says I thought about it let's have sex

[00:25:00] now.

[00:25:01] And he says like I thought you want to wait and she's like I did so basically she barges

[00:25:07] into the parent house and like they're trying to decide where they're going to have sex

[00:25:12] there in the parent house and then eventually they go to his childhood bedroom.

[00:25:18] Yeah, I didn't get like why not his room yeah immediately I don't know.

[00:25:24] But then they end up in his room and well I know well what I took that to be is like

[00:25:30] back if you if you look back retroactively at the scene he was didn't know that he wanted

[00:25:36] to bring her to his room because when they do go into the room the lights are out and

[00:25:42] she turns on the light and he's like no no no no like he doesn't want her to turn down

[00:25:45] the light is when she turns on the light.

[00:25:47] You can see that this room has not been redecorated since he was like 12.

[00:25:51] Yeah, so it's all this like kids.

[00:25:53] Yeah, it's a very childish kids bedroom with like a single bed and everything and but

[00:25:59] she had one great joke that I really enjoy.

[00:26:03] I also had yeah there was there was one or two great jokes in the bedroom what did you

[00:26:07] like it was the she finds this huge trophy and she goes oh you got this trophy for most

[00:26:15] improved camper.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:19] Yeah, it's fine.

[00:26:20] It's just like I just love it's such a put such a picture in your head where you're

[00:26:24] like he was such a nervous boy that somebody gave a trophy making it through camp.

[00:26:33] I actually found a few moments in the bedroom scene funny is basically the only parts of

[00:26:38] of the show that I found funny.

[00:26:40] Yeah, like when she's going through his childhood stuff and she finds it kind of cute and

[00:26:46] she's but she's going through it and you're like wow this is really like it was yeah

[00:26:50] silly stuff.

[00:26:51] Yeah, I yeah.

[00:26:53] And then the bit that I found really funny is like watching them in the in like making

[00:26:58] out on his bed I wasn't I wasn't that into the scene but what was funny is they're

[00:27:02] like getting hot and heavy and then you hear the dad shouting through the door like

[00:27:08] late at night like he's having like back and forth with the back and forth.

[00:27:13] Yeah, he's got like upset bowel things going on and he's like going through the bathroom

[00:27:18] looking for medicine.

[00:27:20] Yeah, and he's like I can't find the my land or something like that and they're shouting

[00:27:24] this is just the idea of them trying to like be in the in an amorous mood.

[00:27:28] Yeah, well these things are getting shouted in the background and that idea that like

[00:27:33] okay it's a an awkward situation for him that he's like getting to hook up with this

[00:27:42] beautiful woman but it's in his childhood home and then they just laid on like one problem

[00:27:46] after another.

[00:27:47] Yeah, the things that are going on in the grandmother wanders in and has no boundaries with

[00:27:53] no boundaries.

[00:27:54] And she just comes and sits on the bed while they're mid-groping and yeah because for some

[00:27:59] reason like sitcom grandparents always have to like have very serious problems that are

[00:28:06] played for laughs.

[00:28:07] Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:09] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:28:12] That's where it starts to unravel.

[00:28:14] It's one of the ways that it unravels.

[00:28:17] Yeah, there was that just jump back to earlier in the episode though there was that scene.

[00:28:24] Yeah, I guess it was in the bar where they were having a drink and all the guys are throwing

[00:28:29] themselves at her.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:31] And something about the lighting and the whole like tone of the scene.

[00:28:35] The tone of the scene was really weird.

[00:28:37] It did feel like something like out of an old timey hall of Hollywood movie where the

[00:28:43] woman is positioned as this one that everyone's falling over and everyone's so flamboyantly

[00:28:49] falling over her in a way that's like it just felt I don't know what how to compare it

[00:28:56] to but it just felt really old timey.

[00:28:58] It just like felt like something like you know Betty of character Betty Davis would have

[00:29:04] been playing.

[00:29:05] That's something, you know.

[00:29:07] With the type of saturated colors and lighting and stuff to me it played like one of those

[00:29:12] soft core cinematics things like the first act of a red shoe diaries thing.

[00:29:21] Like you just had that feeling so apart from like the whole thing you mentioned before about

[00:29:27] his dialogue and the whole thing of him trying to like get her to sleep with him and all

[00:29:32] that.

[00:29:33] Just the whole apparatus of the scene didn't feel like part of a sitcom.

[00:29:38] Yeah, because they're at this like really like shittily set dressed bar and like everybody

[00:29:47] just like everybody knows where everybody is in New York.

[00:29:50] It's the smallest city on the planet.

[00:29:53] Yeah.

[00:29:54] Because like not only do they know how to find each other's apartments without without anything

[00:29:59] but also like everybody knows how to find her at this one bar.

[00:30:03] I know that they're going to on a date.

[00:30:07] Yeah, it's really weird.

[00:30:09] It's like Toronto is a big city and it's but nowhere near as big as New York and there

[00:30:15] are people that I've met in my life that I have never seen again.

[00:30:18] And we'll never see again because it's just when you live in a city like that it's just

[00:30:23] you don't just run into people like I guess if you're I guess if you're in the same

[00:30:27] place all the time.

[00:30:28] Like did they establish this as her hangout or they didn't establish it about shit.

[00:30:34] Yeah, yeah, they didn't accept this I wrote that I went into so I did not research this

[00:30:39] show at all before watching it didn't look up a damn thing which I some which is not

[00:30:44] the first time I've done that like sometimes when one of you two picks the show I find

[00:30:47] it fun to just go in totally cold on the first episode.

[00:30:51] I assume that's what we all did and I didn't I never yeah.

[00:30:54] If it's one of your guys I go where I go and blind but usually yeah, but usually

[00:31:00] flying blind.

[00:31:01] Usually I find it kind of amusing to see what unfolds and be like oh that's what this show

[00:31:06] is about.

[00:31:07] This was the most annoyed I've ever been by not knowing what a show is about like watching

[00:31:13] this episode of the show and just like what is happening who are these people why

[00:31:17] am I why am I supposed to care about anything.

[00:31:20] Yeah, well it is that also the effect of like not watching the pilot first.

[00:31:24] I don't know because it's because it's on TV.

[00:31:27] Yeah, not yet.

[00:31:29] Well, okay so the funny thing about this show in general is that it was sort of viewed as

[00:31:36] a departure from the types of comedies that were on Fox at the time.

[00:31:43] Really?

[00:31:44] This is like another raunchy.

[00:31:46] It's just another raunchy sex comedy.

[00:31:48] It is, but they just thought that the way the raunchiness is expressed is a little less

[00:31:55] like I don't know it's it just felt a lot of the critics had said it was like more elevated.

[00:32:03] So they were saying oh it's a sophisticated comedy on Fox.

[00:32:07] Well, okay and I'm like that's not it's not so physically.

[00:32:12] But I think I know what you mean.

[00:32:14] The difference is whereas something like married with children is self aware of the fact

[00:32:22] that it's unsophisticated like is purposefully in the gutter.

[00:32:26] That's the point of the show.

[00:32:27] Whereas this show is trying so hard to be classy.

[00:32:32] It does think it's high mind.

[00:32:34] It thinks it's high minded.

[00:32:35] This show thinks it's sexy phrasier and whereas what it actually is is dimly married

[00:32:43] with children like it's actually in the gutter.

[00:32:47] But it just doesn't think it is, which is not something that works.

[00:32:53] I did have this revelation while we were talking and I wrote this down that there is a version

[00:32:58] of her that works.

[00:33:01] Her character because it was bugging me like the what is she like some rich trust fund party

[00:33:06] girl or something?

[00:33:07] I don't even know.

[00:33:08] It's like not even clear.

[00:33:09] It's not clear.

[00:33:10] That's like another thing.

[00:33:12] That trope of like it's just this she's just a party girl.

[00:33:16] Yeah.

[00:33:17] Like there's no they don't have a job.

[00:33:19] It's like the character.

[00:33:20] It's not like there's not a whole mess of reality TV about just this.

[00:33:26] Yeah, yeah, I know but it's like.

[00:33:28] But there's a version of this that we enjoy.

[00:33:31] Yeah.

[00:33:32] And that's from Don't Trust the Bee.

[00:33:33] Yeah, I was literally just going to say that because that because she's like.

[00:33:37] The character is this character.

[00:33:40] But hilarious, but absolutely hilarious.

[00:33:43] Yeah, well because the woman wrote that in page.

[00:33:48] It's doing that character for the right reasons.

[00:33:51] Yeah, but it isn't but it is a weird trope.

[00:33:54] I do.

[00:33:55] I do enjoy that that trope idea of this like woman who just is somehow always adjacent

[00:34:01] to famous people and always in these outrageous situations.

[00:34:07] And it's like just has all these and a famous celebrity is always whisking her off to some

[00:34:12] private island for the weekend.

[00:34:14] You know, it's a fun trope and it's like a fun like it's but that thing is inevitable

[00:34:21] of them always being paired with a more straight lace person whether it's a lover or

[00:34:26] whether it's a roommate like the case in the case of Don't Trust the Bee.

[00:34:30] Yeah.

[00:34:31] So like, you know, watch them get into conflict because one is so free spirited and you know

[00:34:40] well in the case of Don't Trust the Bee a moral.

[00:34:42] Yeah.

[00:34:43] Well, there's it but I think they're trying to make Alicia a moral as well.

[00:34:47] Yeah.

[00:34:48] And then we kind of get this in episode 17 which we should dive into now like because

[00:34:53] basically in again, there's not a heavy plot.

[00:34:57] It's basically that now for some reason, um, in Neil works for a film company like a company

[00:35:05] that makes B movies.

[00:35:06] Yeah, he's a writer.

[00:35:08] And he like so somewhere in that season, he left Hawkman Foods got this gig where he's

[00:35:17] kind of doing whatever they want.

[00:35:18] I think he wants to be a writer but in this episode he's put in charge of publicity and

[00:35:24] that means that he has to dress, of course, dress up as a giant cockroach and hand out

[00:35:30] leaflets in a train station which I don't quite understand like I didn't understand the

[00:35:36] cockroach thing.

[00:35:38] They were making him like a monster movie.

[00:35:40] Was that what it was?

[00:35:41] I was having a hard time following.

[00:35:43] Yeah.

[00:35:44] So basically he's in this train handing out leaflets and runs into his version of Lloyd

[00:35:49] Braun.

[00:35:50] Yes.

[00:35:51] Yeah.

[00:35:52] That's a good.

[00:35:53] He runs into Brad Shimmel or his high school nemesis who's always trying to one up him.

[00:36:03] He has douchey high school nemesis and basically Brad is describing his life working in Washington

[00:36:10] D.C., making six figures, yadda yadda yadda and all this and he's just like okay well I

[00:36:16] got a kind of one up this guy.

[00:36:18] I got him to have him meet my girlfriend.

[00:36:21] So clearly again he's just using his girlfriend as like you know arm candy.

[00:36:25] Maybe at least she calls him out on that later.

[00:36:27] Yeah, yeah she does but yeah so he's like okay well so he he tells Brad like oh we should

[00:36:34] all meet up for drinks tonight or dinner so and Brad is there to help his fiance move

[00:36:43] out of her New York home to like moving with him and D.C.

[00:36:48] So they show up for it.

[00:36:50] So basically before they have the dinner plans, Neil tells Alicia and Alicia's like but we

[00:36:59] have like these other plans tonight we're supposed to go hang out with Bono inexplicably.

[00:37:04] It's like see a free YouTube.

[00:37:07] See a free YouTube.

[00:37:09] See a free YouTube concert hang out with Bono get like whisked away to some private party

[00:37:15] on like a helicopter.

[00:37:17] Then like dinner at some lab it's like it's a whole.

[00:37:19] It's a whole evening of like very far fetched adventure.

[00:37:24] The most lavish celebrity adventure.

[00:37:26] Yeah and he's like no no no we have to go one up Brad Schimmel like we have to like it's

[00:37:33] that this is the bigger priority and I mean but he doesn't tell her that yeah well he doesn't

[00:37:40] tell her why he while he positions it like oh I haven't seen this guy in years he's my dear

[00:37:45] friend I'd be such a bad friend so he's manipulating her.

[00:37:50] Well then there's that the one moment I thought was funny where that line where it's as if

[00:37:55] she's never experienced being guilty before.

[00:37:56] I was getting to that yeah yeah so she's like she's like I don't understand why I feel

[00:38:01] this way I is this guilt like she felt bad because she didn't want to do the cause

[00:38:08] everyone was pointing out to her.

[00:38:10] He always goes along with what she wants to do.

[00:38:15] And because he expresses it like oh it's this longtime friend and he'll be very disappointed

[00:38:21] of course she looks like the bad guy for wanting to go on this celebrity you know escapade

[00:38:28] instead so you know he convinces her out of guilt but it was kind of funny because it

[00:38:33] was kind of like oh so we're trying we sort of see her personality in that she's she's

[00:38:39] sort of like a star fucker like she's sort of like more impressed with status and and

[00:38:46] that she just kind of bulldozes her way through things and wants her way.

[00:38:54] And like so we kind of get that little Chloe essence if you will like the character

[00:39:00] from Don't Trust the Bee but not really like they don't go fully into it you know she's

[00:39:04] still sort of has these like redeemable moments where it's a can we just go full like superficial

[00:39:12] with it can we go full like a moral with it but yeah like if that's the joke take it far

[00:39:18] now.

[00:39:19] Yeah, where because I don't yeah I was so on the one hand like in a different situation

[00:39:26] with different characters having a thing where it's like one person always goes along

[00:39:31] with what the other person wants to do yeah so then then one day it's like well just

[00:39:35] do this thing with me you never do what I want to do but it turns out that the thing

[00:39:39] that he wants to do is a spiteful thing.

[00:39:44] That twist in and of itself is fine.

[00:39:46] Yeah only I don't believe for a second that he would rather show up a douchey friend

[00:39:54] that he hasn't seen in years rather than this lavish adventure with her I don't believe

[00:40:01] he'd want to do that.

[00:40:02] No of course because again like she's nothing but like a like a symbol for him.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:08] He you know all she is to him is something that proves that he's not a loser yeah and

[00:40:14] like so he doesn't look at her like a human being so he doesn't care about all the other

[00:40:19] like the bano and stuff he wants people to see her with him or see him with her.

[00:40:24] He's so insecure that he would that this is like a desperate need for him.

[00:40:30] I guess it's just he needs to get back at yeah.

[00:40:33] Yeah it just felt like they could have chosen a thing for her to want to do that was

[00:40:38] just one notch less exciting yeah to make it feel like he wouldn't want to do that thing

[00:40:47] I don't know at this point they started like it seems like they're making the point that

[00:40:52] they do that shit all the time.

[00:40:54] I guess like every weekend it's another star fucking thing so yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:40:59] so this one isn't actually that special because they always do that sort of stuff is

[00:41:03] that the idea yeah I think so yeah but anyway so Neil goes to dinner with Brad and his

[00:41:13] fiance Amy who's played by none other than Lisa Kudrow which is why I chose the episode

[00:41:22] and she's hilarious and it's like not a big part at all but she like steals the scenes.

[00:41:28] Yeah she's so much funnier than that scene should have been yeah and so yeah so basically

[00:41:36] he's having a little bit of an awkward dinner and clearly they've had a full dinner without

[00:41:41] Alicia showing up and you know they start to kind of consider getting the check and leaving

[00:41:48] for the night and Neil's kind of like oh no you know you haven't met Alicia yet she

[00:41:52] and they're kind of like okay Alicia you know like doubting that she even exists and

[00:41:58] then Alicia does show up and she's like looking super hot in her like skin type like gold

[00:42:05] dress and she has like a I was just like I was very again I'm knocked out by the outfits

[00:42:12] and she you know right away fucking Brad is drooling over her in front of his fiancee

[00:42:22] which also like it's also very like you know even the skisiest guys know how to hide that

[00:42:29] yeah I know it's like that's what I mean like they're laying stuff on so thick yeah but like you

[00:42:35] be one thing if his fiancee like left the table to freshen herself up in the bathroom yeah

[00:42:39] and he made a comment about how hot he thought she was or something yeah but like yeah even a

[00:42:45] skisie guy like him would keep it together a little bit yeah like that's what those guys do

[00:42:52] and also she's Lisa Kudra is attractive to exactly it's not yeah yeah it's just he basically makes

[00:43:04] it seem like his fiancee is like it's very mean-spirited because basically the scene he's like

[00:43:09] ogling her the whole time and then their song comes like his song with this fiancee Amy comes on

[00:43:16] and he asks her to he asks Alicia dance yeah and there's a there's song of course being like

[00:43:25] clearance free music from the like yeah yeah from the studio archives yeah exactly yeah yeah

[00:43:34] and then and then kind of like to get back at them the other two start dancing yeah not because

[00:43:40] they want to dance with each other but just like sort of a tit for tat sort of thing but and so

[00:43:45] there's like the parallel dialogue going on the one line that I left that was during the dancing

[00:43:51] thing where I don't remember what led into this where he's explaining uh something happened like

[00:44:01] the what's his name the the the asshole friend Brad Brad is explaining something and Lisa Kudra

[00:44:07] has a line where she's like uh you were with me in you were with oh it was something about where was

[00:44:14] he at a certain oh I know what it was it he makes this flirtatious comment to her while they're dancing

[00:44:23] to Alicia yeah where he's like where was I when you were meeting or hooking up with my friend here

[00:44:30] like as if you know if she had met him first she would have ended up with him yeah yeah where was I

[00:44:36] and Lisa Kudra shouts from across the room you were with me insisting I get a diaphragm because

[00:44:43] you won't wear a condom yeah her delivery her delivery on that line just yeah um Florida me that is

[00:44:53] yeah she's so good she's so good even like then in this like nothing roll yeah she's like such a star

[00:45:00] yeah exactly yeah um and ultimately you know Brad it like basically Brad and Amy's relationship

[00:45:11] and clothes and they like break off their engagement because he his whole thing is like if you can

[00:45:17] get a girl like Alicia then that means I should be aiming higher or and it's like so me and uh

[00:45:26] and then Alicia of course kind of realizes that uh Neil used her to just like look like a big shot

[00:45:33] to Brad and she was like offended by that right fully so but then 30 seconds later

[00:45:38] but then 30 seconds later she's like oh I know it's okay yeah I still love you my like she decides

[00:45:44] it's okay because she after seeing how much of an asshole Brad was and how he's kind of a bully

[00:45:53] then part of she's like well I guess I can kind of understand why you felt the need

[00:45:58] yeah to like stick it to him or whatever but still it's like just hobbling their toxic masculinity yeah

[00:46:03] don't encourage this yeah because like we get all these hints where like you know like oh he bullied

[00:46:09] him when they were younger but then you're also like hearing about like who how he was and you were

[00:46:14] like oh he was stalking this guy's girlfriend like really creepily and like yeah yeah and like

[00:46:21] he was like really yeah like he says he's like the of he's feel like the show is trying to tell

[00:46:29] us he's victimized here but you're like I don't know he kind of sounds like the same sociopathy

[00:46:35] presents himself as today yeah yeah yeah the problem that this one of the problems this show has

[00:46:42] and we've talked about this before the idea where you know you're leading the witness like you

[00:46:47] said early on in our conversation how he's this you know awkward nebish type who feels like he's

[00:46:55] not good enough to be with her but you're like he's actually a cute guy but like you know the

[00:47:00] dialogue tells you as the audience he's not like good enough for her whatever she's way out of his

[00:47:07] league like it's all just like he's not he's awful well the character isn't but what I'm yeah but

[00:47:12] like you pointed out how like from a just a casting perspective it's not the casting of these two

[00:47:19] actors don't seem impossible that they'd be together it's the way the characters are and the way

[00:47:24] you learn that the characters are the way they are is because they tell you not because you like

[00:47:29] discover this through through context organically but they basically shout at you this guy he's

[00:47:36] socially awkward and she's super hot and every man's thrown himself at her and it all like kind of

[00:47:42] gets boomed it's very much big bang theory writing right so yeah oh yeah it's written by a bunch

[00:47:49] of little boys who are mad at the world yeah yeah like and more specifically misogynistic little

[00:47:56] boys right yeah who are mad at women right and like yeah yeah yeah like that my closest example would

[00:48:04] definitely be big bang theory right yeah that's how they treat you know that's how at least when

[00:48:11] that show started that's how they treat that central relationship right yes like yeah yeah exactly

[00:48:18] so it's one of those things where the show is basically telling you this is how you should feel

[00:48:24] about these people yeah having some pretty explicit lines that are gonna like lay that out for you

[00:48:31] yeah and like the fact that he's like not in her so to speak league yeah the fact that he lives

[00:48:39] with his parents and the fact that he's initially like working in this job that he gets from his

[00:48:44] parents that's doing a lot of heavy lifting in terms of telling you what kind of guy this yeah this

[00:48:50] guy is because you're not really see they show him at their office like in that first episode they

[00:48:56] show him there you don't even really know what his job is and you don't see him work yeah it's true

[00:49:01] you don't really see him even interact with the other characters much they're mostly talking around

[00:49:05] him and then her all these guys are throwing themselves at her and that's why she's attractive

[00:49:13] because they're not because we look at her and say oh this is the most attractive person on earth

[00:49:19] it's because every guy is tripping over their own shoelaces trying to get at her yeah they keep telling

[00:49:24] us that they keep telling us that and it feels like half the episodes like every other line is

[00:49:30] something to remind us how we should feel about them yeah well the fact that we saw episode two

[00:49:37] and episode 17 and you're like wow you guys still playing these cards 15 episodes later right like

[00:49:43] they're not in a you know their relationship doesn't feel like they've known each other for a long time

[00:49:49] it's all still the same bullshit over and over again about like he's he doesn't deserve her and

[00:49:56] she's too hot yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly episode 17 should theoretically be some number of months

[00:50:04] later yeah like I don't get what this show it's I don't know what it wants to be what's the take away

[00:50:12] yeah yeah yeah yeah what are we saying about these people like well what do we want to happen here it's

[00:50:18] got such a like it's got such a big cast but the cast is completely least in the two episodes we saw

[00:50:25] like completely incidental yeah they'll show up for about 30 seconds for a scene and then they're gone

[00:50:32] for the rest of the episode so it's like why are you why are you paying these people to be

[00:50:38] series regulars yeah like they're not actual characters yeah the whole show is about their

[00:50:43] relationship everything else is like distantly peripheral so it's a show that is exploring their

[00:50:49] relationship it's not a general sort of broader hangout show you're not getting to know

[00:50:54] their friends or their relatives assembling a best friend or anything a coworker you're not

[00:51:00] really getting to know you kind of are I mean we only saw the two episodes like I think the roommates

[00:51:06] aren't in it most of them are there but like the they I don't know they're fun and I'm like a fan

[00:51:12] of Cleo Lewis yeah find her very funny but like the show definitely hinges on their relationship

[00:51:18] yeah it is it will just like other other similar shows like darman Greg it was all about

[00:51:24] darman Greg you know like that darman Greg was also very much so about both of their parents yeah

[00:51:31] and like yeah and their friends yeah and they were and like you know like the supporting

[00:51:36] characters didn't seem like windowed dressing yeah or like mad about you or whatever like

[00:51:41] if you're gonna make it about a central relationship yes spend more time on these other people

[00:51:47] so that they don't feel so transient and just coming and going through a revolving door but also

[00:51:52] make us care about the relationship yeah really asking us to spend a lot of time with these two

[00:51:59] dating and I'm like I'm not why I have yeah they have zero chemistry yeah yeah I mean you know

[00:52:07] and like usually I'm like all these you know everybody's so talented and stuff like that and it's like

[00:52:12] I don't have that this time around like I don't like Taylor Eone is obviously great because we

[00:52:18] we know she's great and other things yeah uh I know I've seen Corey Parker and things but like if

[00:52:25] this was his only work oh boy it would not be a good calling card well I don't think it's his fault

[00:52:32] I think he's doing I think he's doing exactly what they've asked me to agree I agree um nobody's

[00:52:40] rising above the material no no no exactly except Lisa Kudrow everybody's drag everybody's being dragged

[00:52:48] down yes everyone's being dragged down with it except Lisa Kudrow it's fun yeah her and I also kind

[00:52:54] of enjoyed the dad he had like seven seconds of screen time yeah Michael he was all over that first

[00:53:00] episode though so that's sunny from uh Greece one of the tea birds oh really Michael Tucci

[00:53:10] that's funny and many other like you know he's a big deal character actor on that note

[00:53:16] why don't you tell him about a bunch of stuff they're in yeah yeah well how how how might one

[00:53:24] connect this show with friends well there's the the first obvious one which is Lisa Kudrow who

[00:53:31] guest starred as Amy on flying blind also played Phoebe Buffand friends so that's a here number one

[00:53:39] one degree connection there's tons of connections didn't even need to go through mad about you for it

[00:53:44] no we didn't but you could also and you guys have anyone out there who's heard our episodes before

[00:53:51] you can do that secondary connection um yeah there's there's there's tons of connections there's

[00:53:58] also a couple of the directors including I believe James Burrows uh he directed episodes of this

[00:54:04] and also directed friends and every other successful sitcom um so the next one is Cleolouis who played

[00:54:12] Megan on flying blind she also guest starred on friends uh christine rose who played

[00:54:20] Ellen bearish on flying blind um Neil's mother uh had a recurring role in friends as Paul

[00:54:28] Red's mother like Paul Red's character's mother um christine rose uh also was Mrs. Bueller on

[00:54:38] Ferris Bueller the Ferris Bueller sitcom oh um which co-star Jennifer Aniston huh Jennifer Aniston

[00:54:46] played Rachel Green on friends as you all know so that's so christine rose is connected to friends

[00:54:53] through a one degree connection and a two degree connection Cory Parker has a two degree connection

[00:55:00] so he played Neil of course uh the lead on flying blind he also co-starred with Sheryl and

[00:55:08] Fen on uh Liz the Elizabeth Taylor story Sheryl and Fen guest starred on friends so that's a two

[00:55:16] degree connection hey to Thomas Hayden church who you saw in that uh second episode we watched as

[00:55:23] like a one of the like weird friends in the apartment he was in like two episodes of flying blind um

[00:55:31] he coast like he's also as per last week's episode has connections to friends um so he co-starred

[00:55:40] on wings with Stephen Weber Stephen Weber co-starred with Matthew Perry on studio 60 on the sunset

[00:55:46] strip Matthew Perry played Chandler and friends so that's a three degree connection and then there's

[00:55:51] another three degree connection also through the wings universe Thomas Hayden church the wings

[00:55:57] universe yeah so he co-starred with on wings with Tim daily as well Tim daily co-starred with

[00:56:05] Jennifer Aniston on uh object of my affection and Jennifer Aniston was of course Rachel Green on

[00:56:12] friends so there's probably way more than this as well just because a lot of them kind of popped

[00:56:20] in on different sitcoms and like including mad about you but I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole

[00:56:25] because I know you guys would be like we'd be here for an hour just talking about the various

[00:56:30] connections but yeah there's just there's like a ton it was like this you know like uh

[00:56:36] like right before friends but like a similar kind of era of like trying to make these like New York

[00:56:42] sitcoms um starring young hot young people so it makes sense that there would be some connections

[00:56:50] yeah and then obviously our for our spin-off like the cast is very recognizable like it's obvious

[00:56:58] that nobody kind of really slowed down after this show um Taylor Leone who we've already talked about

[00:57:05] you know quite a bit in our naked truth episode um went on to star in the naked truth as well as

[00:57:12] like a few movies kind of in between um and then after the naked truth she was in a variety of like

[00:57:20] you know pretty successful films including spanglish deep impact fun with Dick and Jane

[00:57:27] and then she had a long run on Madame Secretary as Elizabeth McCord Cory Parker so he started

[00:57:35] another short-lived series called Blue Skies which might be going on the Toys List um he played

[00:57:42] this one I found funny because I already mentioned this so he was in the Elizabeth Taylor bio

[00:57:47] pic that was like a TV movie he played Eddie Fisher so which I thought was kind of fun um and then

[00:57:55] he was also in the made for TV movie sequel of Encino Man and Cino Woman what do you

[00:58:04] I which I remember it was an Encino woman I did not know that 96 okay and basically the

[00:58:11] premise is it's just like Encino Man uh where they fought like you know this this frozen cavewoman

[00:58:20] is found in California and instead of like a teen like comedy it's like you know this young guy who

[00:58:30] works for a PR company meets this cavewoman and then she becomes an international supermodel and

[00:58:38] they fall in love and it's a whole wild thing uh yeah but I remember that that really unlocked

[00:58:45] random pop culture memories for me because I remember watching that um and I specifically remember

[00:58:52] there's a scene in that movie where um they're asking her where she's from and she can barely speak

[00:59:01] because she's a cavewoman and she's just getting her bearings and at one point she says hungry

[00:59:07] because she's like hungry yeah and they interpret it oh she's from hungry yeah like

[00:59:13] wow so they think she's from like this like you know and then she becomes this like runway model

[00:59:19] and it just becomes of course I don't know it's so ridiculous he was also in the love boat um

[00:59:26] reboot from the 90s the love boat the next wave so he had some funny credits some very amusing credits

[00:59:34] he like continued to appear in a lot of like TV and films but now he's actually like a very

[00:59:41] successful acting coach and teacher and his most notable gig was being the you know the main acting

[00:59:49] coach for Miss Marvel so he's done like he's like a very respected guy so it's kind of like

[00:59:56] chuckling to myself when you guys were like well this is his like main like his only work that's not

[01:00:01] a good calling car but he's well respected and he's teaching other people how to act and is like so

[01:00:07] I don't know it's so it's interesting so he like has like he's like which I don't say he wasn't

[01:00:12] I said if this was yeah but I don't know it's interesting that whole actor to acting coach pipeline

[01:00:22] like that I find that very fascinating like the first time I kind of saw that recently was in

[01:00:28] the show and this was just like a character but then in the show Barry the um Sarah what's

[01:00:35] her name's character goes from being an actor to being an acting coach on major movies so it's

[01:00:41] I don't know it's just an interesting thing like I'm like so intrigued by that and I don't know

[01:00:45] if we talked about this but have the the sillier zainier version of that thing on Barry is it's

[01:00:53] always sunny and Philadelphia did a version of that with D where she doesn't make it as an actor like

[01:00:58] she always wanted to so she decides to become like an acting coach I think I think Joey

[01:01:03] uh Trubiani also is an acting coach at some point yeah there might have been a friend there might

[01:01:09] have been a friends episode with that so yeah so the so we'll get to the roommates now so Robert Bauer

[01:01:16] so I found his character really um forgettable like I feel like Cleo Lewis is the one that

[01:01:23] like really stood out like I don't even remember the character's name now but I think it's just

[01:01:27] because she was Cleo Lewis and we know who she is yeah yeah but he so you know he's appeared in a lot

[01:01:33] of different things over over the years like lots of guest starring roles but now he's mainly a producer

[01:01:40] so he produced the film waitress um the series head case and then a kind of a docus series that was

[01:01:49] made about Don Rickles um so yeah so he's more of a producer now um and Cleo Lewis of course

[01:01:59] you know continued to get work in various TV shows she kind of come in and play the kind of quirky

[01:02:06] side characters in a lot of shows and most memorably she was like the quirky friend on Ellen DeGeneres

[01:02:13] sitcom Ellen so she played Audrey on Ellen DeGeneres sitcom and that's who how I remember her

[01:02:21] most it was like she was like the really weird me too friend of Ellen and she has such a distinctive

[01:02:28] kind of voice and like uh delivery yeah yeah yeah um yeah always found her very entertaining so she

[01:02:39] had a recurring role on another short-lived sitcom called Maggie Winters that was starring Faith Ford

[01:02:45] she voiced a character on Pepper Ann uh Nikki and I'm like I don't remember what character that was

[01:02:51] by watched Pepper Ann as a kid um and then she was also an Andy Richter short-lived series

[01:02:58] uh Andy Barker PI yeah and so she's continued to work in more recent TV shows including the Americans

[01:03:08] the affair American Rust and New Amsterdam um Michael Tucci um was already an established

[01:03:15] player you know I mentioned already that he was one of the T-birds in Greece um and he also played

[01:03:23] Pete on the Gary Shan on its Gary Shanling show so he was already a pretty established guy

[01:03:30] and he probably was a bit of a get at the time that they cast this show yeah you got an and credit

[01:03:35] yeah yeah yeah and then so following up um flying blind he you know he continued to work on big

[01:03:45] series including diagnosis murder where he was one of the like main characters he also appeared

[01:03:51] on once and again uh the rich and the ruthless and then he took another turn and I don't know

[01:03:57] where this happened but basically he was also a long time like acting coach as well and a drama

[01:04:05] like a drama teacher at like a private high school so he basically I don't know if it was like while

[01:04:12] he was still acting and then he would occasionally act but he was like also like had his long career

[01:04:18] as a teacher so I think that's like pretty awesome like I don't know I just like like to hear about

[01:04:23] that when actors who you know they have like kind of a double career like it's kind of interesting

[01:04:30] and then we have Marcus Gianmati who we already mentioned was in fact the brother of Paul Gianmati

[01:04:37] appeared in tons of TV following uh flying blind one interesting credit is in a TV um production

[01:04:46] of hamlet he played gildenstearn and you know he's appeared in several other big series including

[01:04:55] tell me love me monk house lie to me bones blue bloods a lot of procedurals basically

[01:05:02] and then of course we have Christine Rose um who is very interesting because she has been in

[01:05:08] several of our twiz shows at this point um so we saw her in Ferris Bueller which I already mentioned

[01:05:15] she was in the famous tedizze davis rules and knuckleback for one episode yeah but following um

[01:05:24] flying blind she got tons of work still she she appeared in the nanny star trek the next generation

[01:05:31] empty nest grace under fire party five and then had recurring roles in series including

[01:05:38] providence the practice friends has already mentioned heroes and trial and error so yeah so our cast did

[01:05:46] just fine after and of course Richard Rosenstock who created flying blind went on to write for

[01:05:52] arrested development and several other successful comedies so everyone was fine after this

[01:05:58] not me yeah I don't know I don't know we'll ever be the same but you know

[01:06:04] yeah I was like slightly on edge watching this show for some reason yeah it was it made me feel

[01:06:10] uncomfortable I don't know why it just it was like that like some shows that we watched they're like

[01:06:15] they're like okay I'm not into this but it's like an easy watch still probably not an easy one

[01:06:21] not an easy watch because it was poorly is just poorly made it made me it made me feel physically tense

[01:06:29] it did and I feel like at any moment we were waiting for another kind of gross dating trope of the 90s

[01:06:37] that's like problematic to like come up and like slap-chaming or something like where I just like

[01:06:43] I just feel like it was just a good weirdly uncomfortable show was not was not as offensive as I

[01:06:50] thought it could have turned into yeah at least not in the two episodes that we watched yeah but it was

[01:06:57] it was there was something about it that just felt like yeah I just gotta get this over with because

[01:07:03] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's almost like the energy level in it was too high yeah for what the

[01:07:10] situation's called for and everything just like amped up yeah yeah there's something about it that

[01:07:16] was just like yeah oh well which is probably why it didn't last yeah it happens bigger it happens big

[01:07:24] swings you know this had to walk so don't trust the bee could run all of that maybe not

[01:07:31] I don't know if you really consider that one a hit yeah yeah because I mean we enjoyed

[01:07:37] don't trust the bee because it was like an amazing show but it wasn't that successful no it wasn't

[01:07:41] successful but we really like it it's yeah cuz it's a well-written well-acted show yeah I think

[01:07:48] it's good we've watched we probably rewatched it a couple times through yeah yeah I wonder what

[01:07:56] I wonder what Mr. Producer would have to say about this show this feels like something he would know

[01:08:02] about hey kid what's the bride hello mr. P how are you this week I'm doing very well thank you

[01:08:16] I had a very productive week on the show making some real headway on that pilot draft finally oh what

[01:08:22] draft is this this would be 38 well they say 38's the charm they do they do say that so what were

[01:08:33] you guys watching uh this week on it was a program we watched flying blind with tailioni and oh god

[01:08:42] really uh yeah I take it you're familiar unfortunately I was heavily involved in this one

[01:08:49] I mean I left before it went to the air but uh I can't quite wash my hands completely

[01:08:56] anything you could tell us yeah well you know we had tailioni and that's about it of course

[01:09:03] the original pitch was she was this newly hired pilot at a fictional airline the twist you see was

[01:09:10] she was blind so you know then we had a title but uh that premise was a little hard for some people

[01:09:18] to swallow I mean you know it basically falls apart the second you ask a single question

[01:09:23] which though not a great sign I wish I could say was a unique problem for our industry

[01:09:29] alas we had to go back to the drawing board and more importantly back to the comedy clubs to find

[01:09:35] a male lead who could go toe to toe with tail well she's a very capable performer top-notch talent

[01:09:43] so I must have seen uh you know 50x now we went down at the gaffa gallery you know which was

[01:09:49] acronym Ohio's hottest standup joint from 1926 all the way through 97 when it was you know

[01:09:57] closed down and became a golden corral all the big Ohio comedians came out of there you know you

[01:10:03] little Mickey Herbert the incomparable Danny Dill Duccio Bingo Bippy plevins they always

[01:10:11] all right Matthew Vaughan St Matthews and his famous 11 minute bit dedicated entirely to the

[01:10:18] children's snack food Dunkarroos these guys were great but all of them took one look at this

[01:10:25] script and passed wow even the Dunkarroos guy yeah I mean that's that's an eye opener

[01:10:32] I promptly left the project I took a seven-month sabbatical where I ended up learning to play

[01:10:37] the hopscord from Mitchell L.W.s you know Kerry's uncle that's a tune for another album

[01:10:44] until next time all right good talking to you

[01:10:48] yeah yeah well he's always a trove of information yeah I mean he sees something

[01:10:59] but like if this is a the fact that he walked away from this show I mean

[01:11:05] yeah it's gotta tell you say it's gotta tell you something yeah so um I guess that's it for flying

[01:11:12] blind unless either of you have any leftovers nope nope the I ate this sooner we stop recording

[01:11:19] the sooner I can go about forgetting all about this show yeah well I don't know I think it was a fun

[01:11:27] conversation so it's one of those shows where like I enjoyed out of the 45 minutes of this show

[01:11:35] that I watched I enjoyed maybe 30 seconds but I enjoyed an hour of talking about it with you guys

[01:11:44] so yeah you know it was kind of a fun show to deconstruct yeah as always yeah I feel really bad

[01:11:52] because I know this is the type of show that like that somebody's gonna listen to our podcast

[01:11:58] be like oh they're doing flying blind yeah and then they'll be like oh no yeah oh no it also feels

[01:12:06] like the kind of show where I could see someone having like a vaguely positive memory of it from

[01:12:13] from the time and not really not because they really remember it like one of those things where

[01:12:19] they just because this goes back what like there's three years yeah this goes back like 92 93

[01:12:27] 9.9 yeah yes this goes back about 31 years or whatever so I could see someone who like caught a

[01:12:34] few episodes when they were a teenager and they're just like oh yeah I kind of remember that show

[01:12:39] I thought that was like like the sexy comedy whatever in New York goes really cool you know whatever

[01:12:46] happened to that show trust us it's you don't need to sexy sexy phrase as you put your

[01:12:55] that's my favorite I move that those remarks be stricken from the record

[01:13:01] on that note hopefully the next the next thing we cover will be more adorable to watch yeah yeah

[01:13:10] all right well until next time another one in the can

[01:13:20] that was a show is created and hosted by Bryn Burney Andrew Barry Helmer and myself Aaron Yeager

[01:13:28] it's a production of Radio Gismo in Toronto Canada subscribe rate review and share follow us on

[01:13:36] Instagram and tell your friends about it that was a show

[01:13:43] Radio Gismo